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	<title>Comments on: Bin &#8216;God Save the Queen&#8217;, the anthem for modern times is&#8230;.</title>
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	<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/</link>
	<description>UK, EU and US politics. All stir-fried with a dash of tabasco</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 20:31:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Pan</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2681</link>
		<dc:creator>Pan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2681</guid>
		<description>As Enda says, that was a superbly written piece.
You know England team is going to sing Jerusalem at the Commonwealth Games.
My pick for England (on its own) would have been Vindaloo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Enda says, that was a superbly written piece.<br />
You know England team is going to sing Jerusalem at the Commonwealth Games.<br />
My pick for England (on its own) would have been Vindaloo.</p>
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		<title>By: enda</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2493</link>
		<dc:creator>enda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 04:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2493</guid>
		<description>Superbly written piece. I wonder will this debate gain much traction in the UK? The Windsors seem to have pulled themselves a long way from the abyss they faced in the early 1990&#039;s - the two young Prince&#039;s being their ultimate assets - though the Queen too draws huge respect for her longevity if nothing else. Given my base in Australia, I do wonder if ever the Republican movement here will win popular support - certainly it doesn&#039;t seem to be a priority for the new PM, and I suspect it won&#039;t be for some time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superbly written piece. I wonder will this debate gain much traction in the UK? The Windsors seem to have pulled themselves a long way from the abyss they faced in the early 1990&#8242;s &#8211; the two young Prince&#8217;s being their ultimate assets &#8211; though the Queen too draws huge respect for her longevity if nothing else. Given my base in Australia, I do wonder if ever the Republican movement here will win popular support &#8211; certainly it doesn&#8217;t seem to be a priority for the new PM, and I suspect it won&#8217;t be for some time.</p>
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		<title>By: Byrnsweord</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2451</link>
		<dc:creator>Byrnsweord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2451</guid>
		<description>One wonders if the writer of this piece has noticed that Jerusalem is a musing on the power of Jesus Christ to heal England&#039;s social and spiritual ills, and the articulation of a profound desire to bring about an ideal Christian society in England (by force, if need be).

I would posit that any effort to awkwardly crowbar the new religion of multiculturalism into this ancient song is misguided at best, and evidence of wanton arrogance at worst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders if the writer of this piece has noticed that Jerusalem is a musing on the power of Jesus Christ to heal England&#8217;s social and spiritual ills, and the articulation of a profound desire to bring about an ideal Christian society in England (by force, if need be).</p>
<p>I would posit that any effort to awkwardly crowbar the new religion of multiculturalism into this ancient song is misguided at best, and evidence of wanton arrogance at worst.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2449</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2449</guid>
		<description>Ah, the &quot;English&quot; monarchy - wasn&#039;t that defeated at Hastings in 1066? In all seriousness, your post proves the point that the current monarchy cannot adequately reflect the diverse identities within modern Britain.

As for the &quot;President Blair&quot; argument (or &quot;President Thatcher&quot; as it was in the bad old 1980s), this really is a non-starter. The irony is that it was the PM&#039;s power under the royal prerogative that enabled Blair to go to war in Iraq without sufficient parliamentary scrutiny.

A sensible republican settlement could end up strengthening the power of parliament and inspire greater democratic engagement. Look at how Mary Robinson reinvigorated Irish political life in the 1990s -- and how her Belfast-born successor Mary McAleese has sensitively built bridges with the North and helped defuse sectarian suspicions.

Does Britain really lack the ambition and imagination to do something similar? I beg to differ!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the &#8220;English&#8221; monarchy &#8211; wasn&#8217;t that defeated at Hastings in 1066? In all seriousness, your post proves the point that the current monarchy cannot adequately reflect the diverse identities within modern Britain.</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;President Blair&#8221; argument (or &#8220;President Thatcher&#8221; as it was in the bad old 1980s), this really is a non-starter. The irony is that it was the PM&#8217;s power under the royal prerogative that enabled Blair to go to war in Iraq without sufficient parliamentary scrutiny.</p>
<p>A sensible republican settlement could end up strengthening the power of parliament and inspire greater democratic engagement. Look at how Mary Robinson reinvigorated Irish political life in the 1990s &#8212; and how her Belfast-born successor Mary McAleese has sensitively built bridges with the North and helped defuse sectarian suspicions.</p>
<p>Does Britain really lack the ambition and imagination to do something similar? I beg to differ!</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2435</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2435</guid>
		<description>I support the monarchy .....of England.

I also support Jerusalem as the English national anthem. 
In rugby this is now just about the case after years of pressure.

It always cheeses me off when English teams are forced to sing the British national anthem an implcation the British political class would prefer the English would shut up and not exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support the monarchy &#8230;..of England.</p>
<p>I also support Jerusalem as the English national anthem.<br />
In rugby this is now just about the case after years of pressure.</p>
<p>It always cheeses me off when English teams are forced to sing the British national anthem an implcation the British political class would prefer the English would shut up and not exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2429</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2429</guid>
		<description>I could, of course, use myself as the concrete example that you demand, or offer the views of numerous other friends and family who think broadly the same as I, but then I&#039;m sure these aren&#039;t the kind of &#039;concrete examples&#039; that would satisfy you. For in truth all we really have is sweeping generalisations, forged through a mix of personal experience and overall perceptions of the mood of one&#039;s country, of one&#039;s locality, and of one&#039;s comrades. 

For which reason I hope you won&#039;t mind me pointing out that your argument against monarchy as presented here is built upon its own sweeping (and faulty) generalisations, both sociological and ideological. In light of that, I do hope that you&#039;ll permit me one of my own when I say that the disdainful villification of the patriotic &#039;white van man&#039;, who sings his anthem with pride and who lines the avenues at the death of &#039;Queen Mum&#039;, is the &#039;evidence&#039; upon which I base my assertions. 

The monarchy is at best a constraint on the accumulation of power by an otherwise all-consuming oligarchy, and at worse it is an anachronism that, however irritating it might be for the bourgeois &#039;revolutionaries&#039;, remains stubbornly popular, both at home and abroad. Subject Blair or President Blair? - for me, there&#039;s no contest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could, of course, use myself as the concrete example that you demand, or offer the views of numerous other friends and family who think broadly the same as I, but then I&#8217;m sure these aren&#8217;t the kind of &#8216;concrete examples&#8217; that would satisfy you. For in truth all we really have is sweeping generalisations, forged through a mix of personal experience and overall perceptions of the mood of one&#8217;s country, of one&#8217;s locality, and of one&#8217;s comrades. </p>
<p>For which reason I hope you won&#8217;t mind me pointing out that your argument against monarchy as presented here is built upon its own sweeping (and faulty) generalisations, both sociological and ideological. In light of that, I do hope that you&#8217;ll permit me one of my own when I say that the disdainful villification of the patriotic &#8216;white van man&#8217;, who sings his anthem with pride and who lines the avenues at the death of &#8216;Queen Mum&#8217;, is the &#8216;evidence&#8217; upon which I base my assertions. </p>
<p>The monarchy is at best a constraint on the accumulation of power by an otherwise all-consuming oligarchy, and at worse it is an anachronism that, however irritating it might be for the bourgeois &#8216;revolutionaries&#8217;, remains stubbornly popular, both at home and abroad. Subject Blair or President Blair? &#8211; for me, there&#8217;s no contest.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2426</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2426</guid>
		<description>Michael - Your arguments would carry more weight if you backed them up with concrete examples rather than sweeping generalisations. When did the &quot;flag-waving working classes&quot; last &quot;turn up en masse to honour their Queen&quot;? I remember walking past Buckingham Palace during the 2002 jubilee shindig and most people in the crowd were Australian or American tourists. Ordinary Londoners of all backgrounds just carried on their daily lives as usual. And this is surely the point - the monarchy is at best an irrelevance but at worst, a debilitating anachronism which stifles debate on forging a new consensual national identity. Queen Liz or Citizen Smith - for me, there&#039;s no contest!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael &#8211; Your arguments would carry more weight if you backed them up with concrete examples rather than sweeping generalisations. When did the &#8220;flag-waving working classes&#8221; last &#8220;turn up en masse to honour their Queen&#8221;? I remember walking past Buckingham Palace during the 2002 jubilee shindig and most people in the crowd were Australian or American tourists. Ordinary Londoners of all backgrounds just carried on their daily lives as usual. And this is surely the point &#8211; the monarchy is at best an irrelevance but at worst, a debilitating anachronism which stifles debate on forging a new consensual national identity. Queen Liz or Citizen Smith &#8211; for me, there&#8217;s no contest!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2423</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2423</guid>
		<description>@William - of course his voting preference isn&#039;t the point (it was the social conservatism bit I was trying to focus on); but I fail too see your point on the (apparent) conflict between supporting the monarchy and celebrating Mark E Smith&#039;s contrarian wittiness (and superb stagemanship, too).

My father was an infantryman, and he isn&#039;t a huge fan of the monarchy either, though he is patriotic and defensive of the institutions and traditions of our country, which includes the monarchy - but then again, being personally offended or frustrated by the monarchy isn&#039;t really a sound basis for saying the monarchy must therefore be bad. Nor for saying that it must be anathema to a democratic society.

Again, it&#039;s largely middle-class chippiness that is the root here, and the call for republicanism is very much an expression of that resentment (the success of which will be the final triumph of the plutocratic classes). Which is precisely why Guardianistas in particular so loathe the flag-waving working classes - especially when they so inconveniently turn up, en masse, to honour their Queen (rather than their cultured masters), be it for state celebrations or the singing of an anthem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@William &#8211; of course his voting preference isn&#8217;t the point (it was the social conservatism bit I was trying to focus on); but I fail too see your point on the (apparent) conflict between supporting the monarchy and celebrating Mark E Smith&#8217;s contrarian wittiness (and superb stagemanship, too).</p>
<p>My father was an infantryman, and he isn&#8217;t a huge fan of the monarchy either, though he is patriotic and defensive of the institutions and traditions of our country, which includes the monarchy &#8211; but then again, being personally offended or frustrated by the monarchy isn&#8217;t really a sound basis for saying the monarchy must therefore be bad. Nor for saying that it must be anathema to a democratic society.</p>
<p>Again, it&#8217;s largely middle-class chippiness that is the root here, and the call for republicanism is very much an expression of that resentment (the success of which will be the final triumph of the plutocratic classes). Which is precisely why Guardianistas in particular so loathe the flag-waving working classes &#8211; especially when they so inconveniently turn up, en masse, to honour their Queen (rather than their cultured masters), be it for state celebrations or the singing of an anthem.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2422</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2422</guid>
		<description>Footballing composers would be a worthy successor to that fantastic Python skit about Germany vs Greece philosophers match. (Marx was right about it being offside, too). Beethoven and Brahms against, um, Nana Mouskori and George Michael?

The Uruguay anthem is a real delight, I have to agree!

As for Ronaldo - maybe he&#039;s been saving his vocal cords until he starts crooning lullabies to Cristiano Jnr...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Footballing composers would be a worthy successor to that fantastic Python skit about Germany vs Greece philosophers match. (Marx was right about it being offside, too). Beethoven and Brahms against, um, Nana Mouskori and George Michael?</p>
<p>The Uruguay anthem is a real delight, I have to agree!</p>
<p>As for Ronaldo &#8211; maybe he&#8217;s been saving his vocal cords until he starts crooning lullabies to Cristiano Jnr&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: anthonypainter</title>
		<link>http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/2010/07/06/new_national_anthem/comment-page-1/#comment-2421</link>
		<dc:creator>anthonypainter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.anthonypainter.co.uk/?p=2547#comment-2421</guid>
		<description>Uruguay&#039;s is astonishing. It was akin to being in Viennese concert hall listening to a romantic era symphony rather than watching the prelude to a football match in their game against Ghana (and theirs wasn&#039;t bad either)! I&#039;m going to rig my TV up to an amp tonight!

They are still cheating so and sos though. I wonder if Beethoven ever deliberately hand-balled? Brahms? I bet Wagner did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uruguay&#8217;s is astonishing. It was akin to being in Viennese concert hall listening to a romantic era symphony rather than watching the prelude to a football match in their game against Ghana (and theirs wasn&#8217;t bad either)! I&#8217;m going to rig my TV up to an amp tonight!</p>
<p>They are still cheating so and sos though. I wonder if Beethoven ever deliberately hand-balled? Brahms? I bet Wagner did.</p>
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