Comments on: Cameron’s delusion on Europe

By: Bilston Bob

Bilston Bob — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:06:00 +0000

Does Alleanza Nationale exist as a distinct party? No.
Does the Alleanza National have fascist roots. Yes.
Has this faction distanced itself from its fascist past and engaged in concensus politics? Yes.
Are they my cup of tea? No.
Does this example mean that Cameron is right to marginalise his MEPs by teaming up with a bunch of bigots for the simple expediency of being able to qualify for funding? No.
Is Cameron pandering to his party's prejudices. Yes.
Is this in our national interest? No.

By: John

John — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:31:00 +0000

Curioser and curiouser, Bob.

When the Tories were thought to be looking to *join* a group with Alleanza they *were* neo-fascists (well after the mid 90s) but now when the Tories are looking to *leave* a group that will contain them, they *aren’t*.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4990666.html

Seems federalists are having their cake and eating it on this one.

By: Bilston Bob

Bilston Bob — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:49:00 +0000

John,
Alleanza Nationale ceased to exist as a seperate party in March. When it did exist, the party rejected it fascist ideological stance in the mid 90s.

By: Anthony Painter

Anthony Painter — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:41:00 +0000

'Anonymous',

Oh dear. You know full well that this is just a political ruse to cloak the Tories' anti-europeanism in 'power to the people' rhetoric. If they cared so much about it then they would have had referendums in 1986 and 1991 when much more significant Treaties in constitutional terms were signed. There are cases where referendums are appropriate. Just not on this one. Just as there wasn't a case with Nice, Amsterdam, Maastricht, SEA, etc.....

For me, the 'issue' is very much what is in the national interest which is the patriotic position to take. The Tories take an ideological position that diverges from the national interest.

Oh, and on Norway- the fax metaphor I used is taken from Norweigan politics in fact. It is often said that they have a 'fax democracy'- laws come in from Brussels via fax and they have no influence over them.

Is that a fate you want for the UK?

By: John

John — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:24:00 +0000

Bliston Bob, perhaps I meant ‘post-fascists’, then. The Alleanza Nationale faction in PdL are, at any rate, joining the EPP.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:12:00 +0000

You're deliberately misunderstanding the point of a Referendum . In a Referendum THE PEOPLE, not the Government, decide which way the country should go.

ALL the major political parties promised in their last election manifestos that a Referendum would be held on the EU Constitution (which is what the rejigged Lisbon Treaty is).

Brown threfore did not have a mandate to sign the Treaty without holding the Referendum he promised and obtaining a 'Yes' vote.

We should hold the Referendum as promised and THE PEOPLE should decide. The politicians can argue their case and try to influence the result, but THE PEOPLE should decide - and the Government should live with that decision. It's not their country; it's ours.

Its really very simple ..... and the only reason Gordon Brown didn't keep the Manifesto Promise he signed up to is because he knew he lacked the skills to pursuade a sceptical British electorate and would lose. Disgraceful.

By: Jon K

Jon K — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:07:00 +0000

Mr Camerons MEPs will be sitting next to fascists and ultra nationalists in the Strasbourg Chamber in the next Parliament.
They will be occuping seats on the far-right next to Le Pen, Kilroy Silk and Alexandra Mussolini. They will be completely marginalised and British interests will suffer as a result.

By: Bilston Bob

Bilston Bob — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:55:00 +0000

John- you are wrong. The Italian neo-fascists are not joining the EPP Group after the election.

The Italian Neo-Fascists were part of the the short lived Identity, Tradition & Sovereignty Group last year. This was formed by a rag bag bunch of ultra nationalists with the sole intention of qualifying. They were united by their hatred of foreigners. Not suprisingly- they fell out with each other.

By: John

John — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:38:00 +0000

"If you care about prosperity, the environment, security, and other issues of a trans-national nature then how exactly can we get by without strong cooperation with our European partners?"

Which can be amply demonstrated, for example, by the fact that Norway is a stinking polluted hellhole riddled with crime and unemployment.

"Remember, he is taking his party out of the European People's Party much to the chagrin of Angela Merkel. Just as the lunatic fringe beckons for the Tories in the European Parliament"

The Italian neo-Fascists are joining the EPP after this set of elections, so I'm not sure teaming up with the Poles is much worse.

By: Oldrightie

Oldrightie — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:36:00 +0000

Ready to lead?

YES!